Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Working group and other such Forest meeting minutes
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
Nerea
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:47 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby Nerea » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:48 pm

Minutes
People present:
Ryan, Graeme, Ida, Marian, Nix and Nerea.
Apologies:James, Stephen.

We discussed three applications: Gudrun Hirt, Deborah Pearson and Screen Bandita. About Grudrum project we decided to help her with promotion, with the printer and stuff like that. And about the other two projects we think that the best is to share the money: 50 pounds each. What do you think about it? We couldn't take a decision. Thanks!!!!!!

User avatar
ravanwin
Posts: 5060
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes

Postby ravanwin » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:59 pm

hi - this was a really shit meeting. neerea and marian had to wait 30 minutes for it to start. Nix Graeme and I all showed up mostly by accident. We need to do something about these poorly attended meetings.

Awkward because we are friends with Debbie and have awkward history with Gudren. Awkward awkward. And with no real debate we could make no real decisions.

So - £50 to Debbie because we love / owe her despite the fact that the grant, overall, seems a bit thin. Though, we hope it helps with her costs. And £50 + support for Ladyfest.

Or - and i don't mind this - £100 to debs and we loan out our spare projector for free thus giving ladyfest a chance to use it to promote the work they do / make some funds to buy their own. hmmm - maybe?

Any thoughts. The meeting was crappy and deadlocked on these issues.

Also - we felt Billy Liar should get a badge machine because
1) we didn't buy one
2) even if we did buy one it would be lost / broken when someone would want to use it
3) he's moving to glasgow and this will help him promote his album and his music and can make merch to sell and thereby support himself.
4) he is good. totally on the team. and we should help talented folk like him.

r

User avatar
James
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes

Postby James » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:38 am

disagree with billy liar.
the reasons we had at the time still stand
I looked into badge machines, i got to busy to do anything about them.
Maybe someone wants to take on as a project buying one, looking after it and making workshops available for people to use it?

User avatar
stephengoodall
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes

Postby stephengoodall » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:16 pm

First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

User avatar
ravanwin
Posts: 5060
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes

Postby ravanwin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:21 am

i think billy liar should get the un-given grant. he is a forest hero and he needs the machine. we had more people at our meeting coming closer to a cnsensus / quorum.

User avatar
martinmckenna
Posts: 2714
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:26 pm
Location: insitu
Contact:

Re: Minutes

Postby martinmckenna » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:28 am

i think you should just give him it,

the discussion about the forest getting a badge machine are legendary and a separate issue . chances are we will lose all the bits and it will become useless .
Heaven is a disaster

Lambchop , The Saturday option .

User avatar
Gandhi
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:57 pm
Location: your moms house
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes

Postby Gandhi » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:04 am

agree, give him the badge maker, can't we just say it comes out of the Forest Records budget?...if there is a FR budget.
It's like God's vagina!

User avatar
James
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby James » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:11 pm

theres not actually a ungiven grant, we gave last months grant to alice in the end

it seems there is a concensous on giving a grant to billy (next months one if no better apps?), I will happily stand aside in that case

but generally i feel that if we have a problem ("chances are we will lose all the bits") we should try to solve it and not be resigned to it.

but this decision making process is shit
altho this is part of the wider problems we seem to be having with WGs at the moment

User avatar
ravanwin
Posts: 5060
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby ravanwin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:46 pm

wait - thought there was a meeting when we didn't give out a grant - i'm sure there was. give that one to billy. it was a hack decision not to give it to him and alice didn't want to be considered for the grant in competition with billy.

right?

User avatar
James
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby James » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:31 pm

it wasn't a hack decision not to give billy the grant.
it was a decision made after discussion among the very competent people at the meeting
the fact there were only 2 of them is a different matter.

as far as I know, alice wasn't saying move hers back because she wanted to avoid billy.
she did it because of the date of her project.
anyone, no grant was given at that meeting
but then:
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=5285&p=27217&hilit=alice#p27217
so we gave her the grant based on that

so there is no grant owed, no.

User avatar
ravanwin
Posts: 5060
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby ravanwin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:45 pm

well, i strongly object to the decision and didn't say anything at the time but, in hindsight, it was the wrong move and we ought to rectify it.

Alice's money should come from the as yet non-existent external task force budget or we should do as andy says and take the cash from forest records. (i should have piped up in Alice's thread but I was hoping someone else from the collective would see the folly of killing Billy's proposal.) If forest records doesn't have a bottom liner at the moment than I guess we need to come up with a consensus.

Not to be picky but the cider grant was awarded post-post-meeting and nobody complained. it is stupid for the forest to own a badge-maker as it will be destroyed nearly immediately / lost / stolen and is thereby non-conducive to the whole "helping artists" thing. I still don't understand the logic that says forest is buying one so you can't have one. I think a 2 person meeting should be immediately terminated and grants decided online if none attends. I was out of the country.

No offence intended to you or Stephen --- hack refers to the way the decision was made and is not a judgement on the competency of either of you --- these things can be really contentious and I think the main mistake was awarding (or not awarding) grants with only two folk there and there was another mistake in not addressing it sooner which, I guess is my bad. My bad is worse especially if no one else agrees with me. Please, someone agree with me?!? Or don't - if you don't agree. I'll be quiet now.

User avatar
stephengoodall
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby stephengoodall » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:02 pm

Fair points, i would say.


IIRC Billy Liar's grant apllication was originally discussed at the August BTS WG meeting where a decision was made not to award it a grant and take a proposal to AF WG to look into a badge maker that could be used by Billy.

However, it emerged at the FWG meeting that this was not of any use to Billy and the application went up for consideration again when James and I met.

I think that meeting should have been aborted in hindsight.

What consensus can be reached on-

-the awarding of October's grant

-Billy Liar's badge machine

and how?
First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

User avatar
nix
Posts: 1231
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:49 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby nix » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:03 pm


User avatar
ravanwin
Posts: 5060
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby ravanwin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:49 pm

ok - the terninology is negative --- if there was a person who wanted to set up the infrastructure / system of forest owning a badge maker that would be great. but, in my opinion, we are not really a very good top-down kind of organisation and to buy something with the hope that someone someday will take it on as a project is a folly. that more accurately says what i think - i think when there are good people with projects to do we should fund them and assist as much as capable however, to buy something in the hopes that someone will magically appear to create merchandise with it seems a waste of money and resources and - if it comes about in a top-down fashion without support of at least a few folks - then it will quite likely be an unsuccessful endeavour. Sorry for not articulating this position with less negativity. Shorthand.
R

User avatar
stephengoodall
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby stephengoodall » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:44 am

This might seem like stating the obvious but i think the Grant process should be for deciding which, if any, of the applications we receive are awarded a grant through the Forest. Funding other than the grants should be decided by the grants process.

I think grants should be awarded on the individual merit of the proposal itself- if someone we know/like/respect has their application refused then they still have other avenues of funding available, espescially if someone from the Forest is fighting their corner.

In this context a badge maker is a promotional tool, so i feel that it is not a suitable proposal for a grant. We generally dislike requests for money for flyers and its not the same but it is similar.
First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

User avatar
Gandhi
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:57 pm
Location: your moms house
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby Gandhi » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:54 am

It's like God's vagina!

User avatar
martinmckenna
Posts: 2714
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:26 pm
Location: insitu
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby martinmckenna » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:23 pm

i agree that a badge machine is simlar , but i would perfer that someone wanted to get a badge machine and make they own rather than for glosses flyers . also i think badges are much more affective form of promotion than flyers . people like objects

anyway how do we move forward with this . should it be something that the af meeting should deal with. forest records dont seems to be doing much . or should we reconsider billys application. i dont know billy ,
With regards to us buying a badge machine , it may be a good idea that the shop take responiblity of it . the shop has structure . things like the cave . darkroom ,screen printing and the the cafe seem able to maintaine equiment .
Heaven is a disaster

Lambchop , The Saturday option .

User avatar
stephengoodall
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby stephengoodall » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:54 pm

First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

User avatar
Jimmy Bastard
Posts: 1210
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:59 pm
Location: Heaven sent, hell bent & unrepentant
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby Jimmy Bastard » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:24 pm

Punx need badges.
Pep Up The Turmoil

User avatar
neil
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:50 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby neil » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:58 pm


User avatar
Newington Bandit
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:32 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby Newington Bandit » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:34 pm

Maybe Billy will let us borrow the machine if we need to make badges...
Maybe Billy can be in charge of the Badge making machine and keep it safe in Glasgow :)

User avatar
stephengoodall
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby stephengoodall » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:47 pm

ok so getting a Billy a badge machine seems a goer- is this a successful grant application for October's grant then? or is the money coming from someplace else and the October grant going to the other proposals as above?
First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

User avatar
James
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby James » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:26 pm

well, I still feel grants should be for helping as many people as possible and not one persons commercial endeavours, as much as we like that person. I don't like this as a grant, or indeed at all, but will stand aside.

I agree with Ryan that just buying something in the hope someone will look after it is a bad idea. that's why I just didn't buy one after the mass enthusiasm on a previous thread, I was looking for someone to look after it properly first.

the ideal is that someone comes forward who wants to run this, the forest buys one, we look after it, billy is very welcome to use ours any time he wants. why is billy saying using one we had would be unsuitable? I honestly can't think of a good reason.

Also, several people have mentioned the external task force budget recently. We don't have one, and several people had serious problems with the idea when it was 1st raised so please stop talking like it is a done deal.

The grants meeting probably should not have happened with only two people, but there seems to be a general problem at the moment and I would like everyone who commented on this to comment on viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5414

As for going forwards ... I don't know. Making decisions on this on the BB I think is very bad. Some people have said they don't like commenting on things here. I'm sure this won't be a popular suggestion, but postpone this till the next meeting, or have a FWG very soon (which maybe we could do with anywhere) and discuss it there?

User avatar
stephengoodall
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby stephengoodall » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:58 am

First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

User avatar
martinmckenna
Posts: 2714
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:26 pm
Location: insitu
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby martinmckenna » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:09 am

i vote for 2 ,if its possible .
Heaven is a disaster

Lambchop , The Saturday option .

User avatar
ravanwin
Posts: 5060
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby ravanwin » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:45 am

i'd say 2 is sound and fair.

User avatar
Gandhi
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:57 pm
Location: your moms house
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby Gandhi » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:29 am

2 sounds good. good to utilise the Forest Records budget on music sh*t and that frees up grants for non music sh*t for arty sh*t. sh*t.
It's like God's vagina!

graeme
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:52 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby graeme » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:55 am

I say 2 too.

User avatar
stephengoodall
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby stephengoodall » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:30 pm

cool- so does the award for forest records money have to go to an artist facilities meeting? Who are the active members of Forest Records?
First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

User avatar
michaelbowdidge
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:42 pm
Location: In the place, with everybody...
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby michaelbowdidge » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:21 pm

Idle curiosity just lead me to devour this entire thread in one sitting - f*cking hell - that was INTENSE.....
I'll take your brain to another ...

User avatar
Jane
Posts: 1557
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby Jane » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:30 am

Yes, 2, badges for billy.

User avatar
ravanwin
Posts: 5060
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby ravanwin » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:32 am

records has a budget but no main person in charge.

i'd guess gaz, jane or dan would ve bottom line on this

User avatar
stephengoodall
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby stephengoodall » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:51 pm

right so does somebody want to give billy the good news and take the matter to Artists Facilities or should i just assume the money has been awarded and ask billy for his address?
First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

User avatar
martinmckenna
Posts: 2714
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:26 pm
Location: insitu
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby martinmckenna » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:55 pm

i think it should just be awarded without the meeting in this case . if jane is a bottonliner then she has said yes . In future this kind of issue should of been referred to af meeting via a agenda point with a email informing billy .
Heaven is a disaster

Lambchop , The Saturday option .

User avatar
ravanwin
Posts: 5060
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby ravanwin » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:10 am

aye. Stephan can you mail billy?

User avatar
stephengoodall
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:29 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Minutes - Behind The Scenes - Thursday 16 Oct 2008

Postby stephengoodall » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:12 pm

aye
First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.


[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “Minutes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests